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Endurolytes for extreme conditions

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Endurolytes for extreme conditions

Postby OnceFast » Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:47 am

I've done several rides in the last few years in very extreme temperatures - a heat index of 110-117 degrees. For my body weight (165) the recommended dosage for normal conditions of 1 endurolyte per 50 lbs per hour equals 3 per hour. On days with a heat index above 100 I typically double that amount. I also like to spread out my intake for two reasons: keeping my intake on an approximate pace with my outgo and not having to take 6 pills all at once. Therefore I try to take two endurolytes every 20 minutes.

The problem is firstly that's a lot of pills to be taking and secondly trying to remember to do it. Even if I don't take them on a regular basis, it still comes down to 6 pills an hour.

Has Hammer ever considered an "extreme" version of endurolytes? I like and appreciate the need for a balance of different electrolytes and that's why I prefer endurolytes over other products that are out there but a larger dose and fewer pills would be a lot more convenient for those really hot days.
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Re: Endurolytes for extreme conditions

Postby OnceFast » Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:38 pm

A couple of additional pieces of information that I forgot on my original post:
  • The rides are 100+ miles in length so ride times of 5-7 hours depending on terrain. Total time is 7-10 hours due to more frequent stops for fluids.
  • Two water bottles one with two scoops HEED and one scoop Perpetuem, the other with just water.
  • Variety of other drinks at water stops depending on what's available and what I'm wanting to drink.
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Re: Endurolytes for extreme conditions

Postby steve-born » Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:52 pm

Hello OnceFast -

The conditions you're riding in are hellish... a heat index of 110-117 degrees? Ouch! I could be wrong here, but I'd venture to say that those are not "normal" conditions, which means that more-than-normal amounts of Endurolytes need to be taken.

I have tinkered with the idea of an "Extreme Conditions Endurolytes" but so far it's still on the drawing board. If I were to design such a product I would probably would not increase the salt (sodium chloride) content too much, if at all. The rationale behind that is because we ALL have a vast reservoir of sodium in bodily tissues (somewhere in the realm of 8000 mg or so). Yes, we do have to replenish salt during exercise but it needs to be done cautiously and conservatively, so as to not override the body's built-in mechanisms that are involved in monitoring, re-circulating, and thus conserving sodium stores. Put another way, if a little is good a lot is not necessarily better.

In my humble opinion, I tend to believe that while all of the minerals work synergistically, calcium and magnesium are arguably the two most important ones involved in muscular contraction/relaxation. Therefore, if I were to design an "Extreme Conditions Endurolytes" the main thing I would do is to increase the calcium and magnesium content of each.

In the meantime, what you might consider trying is to augment your Endurolytes intake with a good calcium/magnesium supplement. Most people need additional amounts of these two minerals daily anyway (particularly magnesium), and it - along with Endurolytes - just might help you stave off cramping on those extreme days.

Just a suggestion!

Steve
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Re: Endurolytes for extreme conditions

Postby OnceFast » Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:58 pm

Hi Steve,

Thanks for your response. I hear what you're saying about sodium and taking it in moderation, that's one of the things that puts me off other products on the market. As I said, I like the balance of minerals in endurolytes. I just wish there were an "ultra" version for those days when it's really hot.

Consider this one vote for Endurolytes Extreme (no charge for the product name :D ).

Greg
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Re: Endurolytes for extreme conditions

Postby zagbag » Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:24 pm

I'd sure be willing to try out an Extreme Endurolyte product. We just hit 70 days of 100+F so far this summer (in the shade) and have another full month to go. I may try a Calcium/Magnesium supplement to see if that works. So far, on the races where I've stayed 100% Endurolyte (6+ per hour) I've still cramped up. When I add a higher dosage NaCl pill to the Endurolytes, no cramping. Seems like it helps process all the water too (no slosh stomach). If one is sweating profusely for multiple hours, 20-24oz of fluid isn't enough. When you drink more, you flush out more salts and need more replacements. Not all of us live in Montana! Thanks, Steven in Austin TX.
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Re: Endurolytes for extreme conditions

Postby frankd » Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:32 am

Hi Steve in Austin,

I am curious why you did not increase your dosage above the 6/hour you went to when you still had cramping? You may know if you "OD" on the natural minerals in this product (no drugs involved here) the result is you retain fluids = you get swollen wrists, ankles, fingers, or puffy under your eyes. Solution, just stop taking them until the swelling subsides.

I am 165lbs. and tend to cramp occasionally in intense heat/exertion situations. My normal dose is 3 pills per hour. I had one situation where I took 3 at the top of the hour in high wind conditions and 20 minutes later felt twinges in my calves. I ended up taking 3 caps every 20 minutes for the next 5 hours (45 capsules) and did not experience any fluid rentention. The only thing that happened was I took longer pulls on the front then any teammates and was asked how I was able to perform so strong throughout the cycling event.

Frank- Former Hammer sponsored athlete and independant Hammer Nutrition Consultant
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Re: Endurolytes for extreme conditions

Postby Majcolo » Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:15 am

I've had great success with a Cal/Mag/Zinc supplement (from Solaray, but I don't think the brand is important). I swell up like a balloon if I increase my Endurolyte consumption too much due to getting far more sodium than I need.
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Re: Endurolytes for extreme conditions

Postby zagbag » Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:13 pm

Hey Frank and all following...
The main reason I didn't up the Endurolyte dose further is the impracticality and difficulty of needing so many pills. I ultra run and even if there is an aide station I may not have a drop bag there. Carrying 50 pills is to cumbersome and that might only last 5hrs anyway. Running for 7-20 hours would demand a rolling pharmacy to drag behind me! Gotta run....Steven ATX
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Re: Endurolytes for extreme conditions

Postby OnceFast » Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:22 pm

Steven makes exactly the point I was trying to address with my question: independent of whether or not endurolytes work in extreme conditions (they do for me), taking dozens of pills per hour is impractical at best - especially in race conditions but even on a "fun" ride. It's hard to carry that many, it's hard to take them on any kind of regular schedule and over a long run/ride you're taking 50-100 pills.

I appreciate the difficulty in getting the mineral balance in an "extreme" product right but it sure would be nice to be able to take no more than 2-3 pills per hour.
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