First Time, Slower Marathoner

The Forum for Endurance Athletes

First Time, Slower Marathoner

Postby sarahdaniels77 » Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:46 pm

OK folks. October 16 is my first marathon. On race day, I will have been running for almost exactly 2years - all with this goal. I am a slower marathoner and am working to finish in 5hours. Last Fall, I switched to a heart rate based training plan and continue to see the payoff.

I am my own sherpa on long runs; I can make a food/water drop for fresh supply, but I don't have a team and I live in a rural area. I have been using HammerGels since last summer, after discovering that a number of other gels did nothing for me. I am finding that at this point, i am feeling like a rock star for 7 to 8 miles (1.5 to 2 hours), then 3miles of "i feel fine" and between 12 and 13 I've been struggling with just simply running out of gas.

After reading a lot of the forum information and some of the articles referenced, it would seem that switching to either Perpetuem or Sustained Energy would be the way to go. Is one receommended over the other for someone like me? And will the liquid form of either be enough for nutrients AND hydration?

The followup here is this: The race will provide Gatorade, I'm not sure of the nutrition yet. it looks like I will need to carry my fuel during the race as well, which is maybe where the tablets would be handy so i can run without gear?

Any thoughts are welcome. Bring it on.
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:25 pm

Re: First Time, Slower Marathoner

Postby wayne » Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:46 am

First and foremost way to go. What ever you do in practice then do it in the race. I find alot of people take a gel when they start to feel a little low in energy. That is the wrong way to do it. Look at everything on this site. It says about 300 calories an hour. That would mean a gel about every 20 minutes and insure you take the right amount of water. Also look at everything about endurolytes and practice with them now. It is not specific and different people need different levels of electrolytes. I find Perpetuem and Sustained energy to be outstanding. I like to wear a water belt with two water bottles. I make the Perpetuem and the Sustained energy into a paste and carry water in the second bottle. If you take the necessary Perpetuem or Sustained energy then you do not need the gel. Now this is where it gets weird. I take a small mesh bag and put items in it and stuff it down my shirt. It looks a little weird! I like to always carry sunglasses, sunscreen and on training a small amount of money.
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 2:46 pm

Re: First Time, Slower Marathoner

Postby sarahdaniels77 » Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:27 pm

Thanks, Wayne. If i can get what I need for Saturday's 15miler, we'll see how it goes!!!! Based on the nutrition data, it does seem like it might be simpler for me to go with the Sustained Energy paste and water - only because the caloric value matches the hourly intake numbers. I'll start there and read up on the endurolytes as well.

I might be slower, but I'm really enjoying the training and altough supplements won't garner me a BQ, they will hopefully improve my experience and help me reach the goal ---- the finish line.
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:25 pm

Re: First Time, Slower Marathoner

Postby sarahdaniels77 » Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:27 am

Wow - Thanks Wayne!.... Followup Question: Since I am accustomed to HamemrGel at 40minute intervals, that is an easy timeframe for me to work within. In looking at the nutrition information of Perpetuem, this would put me right at 300-cal per hour without much thought; while if I were to do the same with Sustained Energy, I would have to be wary of serving size or risk going over what I actually need.

Does this make sense?
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:25 pm

Re: First Time, Slower Marathoner

Postby steve-born » Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:22 pm

Hello Sarah -

Wayne has provided some very good information; I'll just add a few thoughts of mine:

1) The average-sized athlete (approximately 160-165 lbs) can effectively process about 240-280 calories an hour. If you're a lighter weight athlete you can easily get by with less (some as little as 100-150 calories/hour), and if you are a larger athlete you can consume a bit more than 280 calories an hour. But that's the starting gauge - 240-280 calories/hour - from which you should tweak based on your body weight.

2) As I said in an post I just responded to, my definition of proper fueling is "What is the LEAST amount of calories I need to keep my body doing what I want it to do hour after hour?" The reason I suggest that is because it's a lot easier to fix a "not enough calories" problem than it is an "uh oh, I took in too many calories and now my stomach is really upset" problem. Also, keep in mind that about 2/3 of your energy requirements will be fulfilled from the calories in body fat stores. After about 2 hours, they become the body's "fuel of choice," which means that your body will effectively "bridge the gap" between what it's burning and what it can comfortably accept from you and your fuel donation.

3) In ultra distance races, I want variety in my fueling menu so I use Perpetuem and Sustained Energy as my primary sources of fuels (covering 2/3 - 3/4 of my energy requirements), with Hammer Gel, HEED, Perpetuem Solids, and perhaps a Hammer Bar on occasion (I'm not a big solid food fan) used to fulfill the remainder of my body's needs.

4) Once you figure what your ideal hourly calorie intake is, then you can use any/all of the Hammer fuels as you see fit... just remember to use either Sustained Energy or Perpetuem (or both) as your primary fuels.

Each scoop of Sustained Energy = about 107 calories
Each scoop of Perpetuem = 135 calories
Each scoop of HEED = 100 calories
Each serving of Hammer Gel = 80-90 calories (depending on flavor)

5) As far as Endurolytes goes, Wayne is spot on in saying that everyone's needs are different. Heck, what you need at 8am may be completely different than what you need at 2pm, if only due to the weather potentially being hotter in the afternoon as compared to the morning.

Our general dosage suggestion is 1 Endurolytes capsule per 50-60 lbs of body weight per hour, with the understanding that you can alter that dose immediately if you feel a twinge of a cramp coming on, and that you can alter the dose on an as-needed basis depending on the weather conditions and how well or poorly you're acclimated to them.

I hope this additional information will be helpful to you, Sarah.

Sincerely -

Steve Born
Fueling Expert
Event Sponsorship Coordinator
User avatar
Posts: 300
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:16 pm

Re: First Time, Slower Marathoner

Postby wayne » Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:45 pm

Sarah; I am sorry but what is BQ? I forgot to mention that I am a pretty big guy so I have a fairly high calorie intake. I like the advice about taking in less calories. Now with hydration; you want to work out the right amount per hour and really try to stick very close with that. I think most runners we have always been tuned into gels and other solid nutrition. I have switched over to the Sustained Energy and Perpetuem and will never go back. You have to again be careful with calories but you can mix in some of the gels with the Sustained energy and come up with some fine combinations. Either contact Hammer directly or go to a sports store and buy individual packages and try all the Hammer drinks. I have tried almost every sports drink on the market and by far Hammer has the best tasting and most helpful products. Go with the Recoverite about 30 minutes after running and go with the Whey in water right before bed.
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 2:46 pm

Re: First Time, Slower Marathoner

Postby PowerGoat » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:20 pm

Hi Wayne,

A BQ means "Boston Qualifier": a marathon that is fast enough for your age to qualify you for the Boston Marathon.

One thing you can do to keep all of your Perpetuem (I'd recommend this over SE for your needs for this event) powder or solids, HEED, and Hammer Gel with you easily is getting either a hip pack or a racing vest. There are several companies that make these--everything I've purchased from a company called "Nathan" have been excellent (light and very durable)--with Race Ready providing the option of using shorts that have external pockets sewed into the shorts (these are great, too).

Then, at each water stop, you can just put some powder or your solids into the water bottle, fill the rest of the way with water, and keep on truckin'.

Incidentally, the handstraps that hold water bottles onto your hand usually have some kind of mesh or nylon pouch that can hold a serving or two of something as well. That's where I keep my Endurolytes, in one of those coin purses.

Remember to practice carrying stuff in training so that you don't get any surprises on race day. Once, I literally had to stop running at the start of a race because of someone who had not tested her race setup. One particular lady--no one knows who she was--had the Race Ready shorts which she was wearing over compression/bike shorts. She had stuffed every pocket on those shorts with gels: that's like three or four gels per pocket times eight pockets. It was only a 50-mile race, but she must have had at least 25 or so gels with her. And there were aid stations! Anyway, not only did she stuff her pockets, but she lined up ON the starting line. This was a local race, and most of the regulars (most in this group were veterans of 20-30 years of running and almost everyone knew almost everyone) were a little taken aback by that, but many were sufficiently amused by her pockets to back up behind her. As you could imagine, in the five minutes between lining up and starting, many people had started pointing out "the pocket lady" to others, and by the race's start, maybe 50 people had taken a peek and were smiling. As soon as she began running, gels started flying out of her shorts! The first few went flying up--one actually passed her going forward--and then some others started going sideways and down. Why the sudden change in trajectory? Because her shorts started falling down! The extra weight of the gels made her outer shorts slide down over the slippery lycra bike shorts. She ended up grabbing her shorts with both hands and running off the side of the course.

The moral of this story is to test out your exact setup during a training run. Nutrition, clothing, socks, etc. You don't want your race ruined because you wanted to save your race singlet for race day, only to find out that it chafes. Likewise, you don't want to be the "pocket lady" at your marathon.

Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:35 pm

Re: First Time, Slower Marathoner

Postby brad » Thu Aug 25, 2011 6:14 pm

Hi Wayne/ Steve

After reading the thread, I was wondering using Heed for hydration while consuming Perpetuem, is effective during a Marathon. Or would you suggest having only water for the hydration source with Endurolytes pills in conjunction with Perpetuem. ? With that said…. Would this be done at the start of a Marathon or transition into it by the second hour of the race, thus using the typical Gel and Heed.? Also, how would you schedule the intake the Perpetuem Solids -if I didn’t want do the typical mixing ?

I’m 168 lb and I was mixing 2 scoops of Perpetuem on the run (as Wayne suggested) in an 8 oz flask – sipping it every 15 min, which would last me 1:30 hr while supplementing with Heed ... I started the race taking one gel 45 min prior to the start. I kept an extra gel if I run out of Perpetuem at the end as a back up.

What is your thoughs,

Thanks Brad
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:31 pm

Return to Endurance Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests