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Stomach not emptying fluids?

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Stomach not emptying fluids?

Postby m9679 » Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:30 pm

Hi

Sorry if this has been done before. I've read all the FAQs etc but think I still have an outstanding question. Also can't see this in the forums already.

I'm doing the local XTERRA offroad triath shortly (Olympic distance but all offroad). I've been preparing to replinish as follows:
- Electolytes before the swim (1km)
- Perpetuem mutli-hour bottle (3 scoops in 16oz water) plus electolyte water bottle during the ride (1h45m-2h ride approx)
- HEED during the run (2 scoops in 16oz water), plus gel packs if needed (over 1hr run)

What I found during a recent run off the bike (full distance, hilly and pushing quite hard) was:
- I couldn't finish the Perpetuem bottle on the ride (stomach didn't want it)
- I had to force the HEED down on the run (stomach didn't want it)
- I lost my legs in the second half of the run and I felt like my stomach wasn't emptying (ie the good stuff wasn't making it into my blood stream)
- However I got a decent boost from holding gel under my tongue then washing down with HEED in that second hafl of the run

Basically what I am asking is whether it is common for newbies to not clear their stomach and have to resort to more concentrated gels, or whether I am dreaming it all and I just need to get fitter! Or whether I have conentrations wrong. Or whether I should be using different products.

TIA
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Re: Stomach not emptying fluids?

Postby levi-hoch » Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:00 pm

Hey Tia,

First off, I'd like to ask how much you weigh? The amounts you were using sound really high. I would encourage you to start with the usage suggestions on the product pages under the "usage" tabs to get you in the right vicinity but even more important is that you listen to your body and don't force yourself to adhere to the amounts you planned on using if your stomach starts feeling full. Feeling full is an indication that you've been over fueling and should avoid caloric consumption until your stomach feels ready to accept more. I find that athletes (especially triathletes) generally do well by starting their race on an empty stomach (as explained further in http://www.hammernutrition.com/knowledg ... ge-section ). I think if you were to start with a Hammer Gel 5-10 minutes before the swim that would be fine and then take a serving or two every hour after that or switch to HEED if you prefer on the bike. Since your event will be in the 3-4 hour range, you really won't need to use Perpetuem much, if at all if you don't want to. In fact, since Perpetuem digests a little slower than the carb only fuels HEED and Gel, I would encourage you to save the Perpetuem for your long training sessions and stick with HEED or Gel on race day. If you feel like incorporating Perpetuem into your fueling on events of this duration, you could experiment in training with adding a Perpetuem Solid or two per hour while relying primarily on Gel or HEED to get comfortable with how that will work on race day. The "less is best" concept is essential for successful fueling. Please visit this article to learn how important it is to use the minimal amount necessary to prevent running out of gas vs. forcing yourself to consume as much fuel as possible before you get stomach distress. http://www.hammernutrition.com/knowledg ... ge-section Fueling this way will keep you energized and help you avoid bonking, and stomach discomfort.

Lastly, I would encourage you to check out this article http://www.hammernutrition.com/knowledg ... ge-section that explains proper electrolyte replenishment, hydration, caloric intake, & recovery. These concepts are essential to achieving fueling success and I know that you'll experience higher levels of performance by implementing these techniques into your training and racing!

I hope you find this information helpful, please let me know if you have further questions.

Happy training!
Regards,
Levi (customer service representative)
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Re: Stomach not emptying fluids?

Postby m9679 » Fri Mar 11, 2011 1:03 pm

Thanks Levi for the response.

Before I dive back into those articles you recommend I wanted to answer a couple of your questions, particularly because I thought I had the dosages about right according to the articles and instructions on the packs etc. I'm about 83kg and 186cm. I was using Pertepuem on the bike because the whole sustained activity is well over 2hrs and the bike is the only real place I can consume the powder (not solids) that I had planned to use (and because it tastes awesome and normally feels great :) Since the ride is close to 2hrs I planned a multi-hour bottle and the dosage for my weight was "up to 1.5 scoops" per hour into a 16oz bottle. Although I'm at the top of that scale and the advice is to start low and work up, I thought I was at least still on the scale. Do I have that bit right? I'm washing this down and hydrating during the ride with just about 1-2 x 16oz of water with 1-2 electrolyte fizz caps in, in my backpack bladder which is my preferred way of drinking on the bike. Adding the water in the Perpetuem to the elec water I think I am still within the recommended max of about 16-20oz of water per hour for the ride also.

On the run I had planned to only use HEED as I didn't want the Perpetuem in my backpack bladder, HEED contains the carbs and elecs I need most (and enough of the latter I think), and it has worked real well for me by itself so far. The HEED concentration is about 2 scoops into 2 x 16oz of water. I'm not getting thru a lot of that on the run, so I'm probably consuming about 1.2 scoops and 20oz of water during the run on top of the Perpetuem and elec water in the ride. I think that is within the recommended dosage also? Although I'm adding the Ride-Perpetuem to the Run-HEED I think each is within dosage for the time I'm spending out there.

I only cracked into the gel towards the end of the run because the above seemed to be sitting in my stomach and (believe me) I needed a boost to get home!

Do I have the wrong idea with my plan as above? Should I be just using HEED (and perhaps something else) throughout the event (I don't really like trying to play with gel packs on a MTB race so prefer HEED and understood the two were pretty interchangeable?). I get the idea of starting low etc and perhaps that is just the key here (ie dosages are within limits but perhaps just too high for me personally) but I just want to check I don't have completely the wrong end of the stick or whether Hammer recommends in my case that I JUST use gel and forget the rest!?

Thanks again
Paul
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Re: Stomach not emptying fluids?

Postby levi-hoch » Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:08 am

Dear Paul,

I think you've got the right idea, especially since you understand the essential "less is best" concept and are planning to implement that into your fueling. The reason I suggested sticking with the lighter, carb only fuels Hammer Gel or HEED is because you mentioned having stomach discomfort and experienced the Perpetuem "sitting in your stomach" which indicates to me that you may have been taking too much and because Perpetuem is a much more concentrated fuel than HEED or Gel, it will digest slower and it's easier to over fuel on it than with the lighter fuels. I think that for the duration of the events you're doing, Perpetuem may not even be necessary even though your event is around the 3-4 hour range. Please understand that I'm not trying to talk you out of Perpetuem (it's my preferred fuel for most events) but simply advising that you use it sparingly due to your past experiences and the nature of your race. If you feel like using Perptuem on the bike, go for it! Just remember to pay attention to how your stomach feels while using it and if you start feeling full, then break from fueling with anything for a little while (maybe 30min?) until your stomach feels like it's "ready" for more fuel. I generally go more off of how I'm feeling that by numbers on how many calories or even how many scoops of Perpetuem/HEED/Gel servings I'm consuming at an hourly rate. I do like to keep an eye on it and be cognitive of approximately how much I'm getting hourly but use it as a guide and let my energy levels and stomach comfort be the final decision maker on whether to continue fueling steadily, decrease fueling, or change to a different fuel. You are correct that HEED and Gel are interchangeable and if you prefer HEED on the run then by all means, use HEED!

So in the end, the choice is yours how you'd like to fuel but the suggestions I offered are popular choices amongst triathletes that I've dealt with and there should be some tips of value to you. Does this clear things up a bit? Please let us know if you have questions and do read those articles I previously included if you get the chance, they explain it all better than I could.

Regards,
Levi
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Re: Stomach not emptying fluids?

Postby m9679 » Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:13 pm

Much appreciated thanks Levi. All makes sense and fits with the articles (which I have re-read).
Over and out.
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Re: Stomach not emptying fluids?

Postby dekindy+ » Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:38 pm

Spread the Perpetuem across all the bottles instead of a multi-hour bottle so that the calorie intake is more even?

I understand the concept of a multi-hour bottle so that you can separate calorie intake from fluids so that both can be controlled easier. This was a problem for me on an all day ride that was unseasonably cool. I did not need as much fluids so I did not get adequate calories.

However the concentrated amounts in a multi-hour bottle, especially if you are taking large drinks infrequently from the multi-hour bottle may be too much at one time. Maybe take more frequent, smaller drinkgs from the multi-hour bottle?
Dwight
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Re: Stomach not emptying fluids?

Postby levi-hoch » Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:09 pm

Dear Dwight,

You certainly can spread your Perpetuem across all your bottles if you like. As for the multi-hour solution, I agree with you about taking small sips 15-20 minutes apart. That's how I do it and it works well for me. If I start feeling full, I may skip my fueling sips for half an hour or so and drink plain water in the interim until my stomach feels like accepting more calories. It's kind of hard to explain the feeling of "being ready to accept more calories" but that's what I go by. Just pay close attention to how your stomach feels and adjust accordingly and you should be fine. I would caution people to avoid taking big gulps of Perpetuem less frequently because it may overwhelm your stomach and cause some discomfort by forcing the stomach to try and process too many calories too quickly.

Does this make sense?

Regards,
Levi
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