Perp Issues

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Perp Issues

Postby rodwilsonsr » Mon Aug 09, 2010 4:31 pm

Hi All,
I have been using Perp on and off for the past few years. The reason for on and off is because I still cant seem to stomach Perp after 3-4 hours.
I did a 6.5 hour training ride on Saturday and this was pretty much my last ditch effort at using Perp. I took a 3 hour bottle, enough powder for another 3 hour bottle and some expresso gels with me.
I figured I would do Perp for 3 hours, do gel for an hour and then finish off the ride with Perp.
Overall this was going to be a moderate zone 2 ride, no threshold stuff, just getting the saddle time in for an upcoming multi-day ride. I figured this was a perfect setup.
Well after 3 hours, I could already feel the familiar Perp nausea setting in. I gel'd it for the 4th hour, shutdown fueling up to 5.5 hours and hit a red bull and snickers marathon bar at a store at about 5.75 hours. Which I was able to crush the end of the ride...that was pleasing.
I took in plenty of H2O, about a liter an hour.
My electrolyte intake was also sufficient.

My history with Perp has been unsuccessful. I have tried 100 cals an hour, I have tried 300 cals an hour and everything in between. I have tried cutting it with gel and Heed. I tried the Orange flavor and I thought the Latte was going to fix everything. I just get the feeling that there is some ingredient in Perp that does not like me.
I will say that I remember one or two days where I think Perp did work...but it was like 100 cals an hour max...but even then I was feeling a subtle sense of nausea after a few hours.
I have some SE that I have not tried and I was thinking about using SE with some Expresso gel this Saturday as I have a six hour ride to do.

This is a very general overview and I can provide more specifics if needed. But I guess my questions are....
Does anyone else have issues with Perp?
Is it really ok to go on 6-7 hours with Heed, gel and Hammer bars?
How different is SE compared to Perp? Maybe that part of Perp that does not like me is not in SE?

Anyhow, I have a 3 day ride coming up in a couple weeks...looking to clock about 125+ miles a day. So getting my fuel of choice down is obviously important. I typically like to keep it simple and keep it to a single source of fuel...but I'm open to any input. Right now I'm thinking Expresso Gel and Heed with an occasional Hammer bar for the event...dont know how the whole muscle breakdown/Perp protection plays into that.

Re: Perp Issues

Postby steve-born » Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:33 am

Hello Rod -

One thing that grabbed my attention in your post is the amount of fluid that you're drinking. You mentioned that you were consuming about liter of fluid an hour (33.8 ounces), which is really on the high side... most of the cases of dilutional hyponatremia have occurred when athletes have consumed this much fluid on an hourly basis. Also, there is some fluid still remaining in that 3-hour bottle of Perpetuem that you're consuming, and though it's not much over the course of three hours, it still counts towards your hydration intake.

For example, if you're using a standard size 24-ounce water bottle and put six scoops of Perpetuem in there you'll probably still have about 12 ounces of actual fluid left in the bottle (that's just a guesstimate). So, in addition to the 32+ ounces you're consuming in water, you're getting another 4 ounces/hour via the Perpetuem, giving you a total of close to 36 ounces of fluid per hour... I think that's far too high and it may be playing a role in the stomach issues that you've experienced. I would suggest that you trim down your water intake to 20 - 25 ounces per hour and see how that works.

I don't know what it is in the Perpetuem that would be causing the stomach issues; the only primary differences between that and Sustained Energy is that Perpetuem contains sodium phosphate and lysolecithin (a healthy fat). Sustained Energy contains neither of those.

I would encourage you to give Sustained Energy a try to see if your body responds more positively to it... please post your results OK?

FWIW, when I do a 6-hour ride, I will make a 4-hour bottle of Perpetuem (or Sustained Energy, if so inclined) and carry a flask of Hammer Gel. I now have 6 hours of fuel in one bottle and in one flask, which makes things a whole lot easier:

*** Not having to drink so much volume of flavored fluid hour after hour
*** Not having to stop and make more fuel
*** Getting to drink and enjoy plain water to cleanse the palate and maintain hydration status
*** Knowing with greater precision how much fluid I'm consuming hourly and how many calories I'm consuming hourly. Because these two sources of fuel - fluids and calories - are coming in from sources independent of each other, it allows you to know with greater precision just how much of each you're consuming. Also, it allows you to adjust your intake (e.g. increase your fluid intake if the weather gets hot) without having to concurrently increase your calorie intake (in hot weather the body's ability to process calories oftentimes decreases while its fluid needs increase).

I hope this information is helpful to you.

Sincerely -

Steve Born
Fueling Expert
Event Sponsorship Coordinator
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Re: Perp Issues

Postby knjwes » Tue Aug 10, 2010 1:47 pm

I can say that from personal experience I have been religious about the amount of water intake, etc and almost always have the same nausea experience you described. I finally gave up on Perpetuem and switched to Sustained Energy/Heed mix. I do 12 - hr adventure races and prefer a completely liquid diet. What I personally do is mix 3 scoops of SE with 1 scoop of HEED (for flavor) - to create a 2 hr bottle. I found that it had mostly to do with taste. Since I cant stand coffee, the latte flavor was out of the question, so that leaves me with Orange Creamsickle. If the weather was cold outside then I could handle the Perp longer. Its just that once the mixture got warm, it tasted like drinking a melted orange sicle - not exactly appetizing. However, the warm mixture of a lightly flavored strawberry, lime or orange that the Heed provided in the SE/Heed mix, was more easily tolerable. That being said, I still find both hard to keep down when the weather is hot and the mixture gets warm. I prep them both by filling my bottle with crushed ice - to the rim and keeping the mix in the fridge or cooler until show time. If I need a second bottle on a warm day, I prefer to freeze the mixture, but the problem with this is that it never seems to be ready for me when I need it (still frozen). Now, I've puked so many times on the Orange Perp that it is difficult to go back because my brain always associates that issue with the product. I am curious to try the Per unflavored with Heed for flavor, but dont want to by a whole container to experiment.
My stomach tends to go from just hungry to nausea if I do not have solid food at regularly scheduled meal times during long endurance events, so if I screw up eating, then I quickly go to nausea and becomes very difficult to eat anything.
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Re: Perp Issues

Postby hayleyb1981 » Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:59 am

Hey Rod,

I have to keep this reply short and sweet, but to answer your question about whether it is ok to do 6+ hour workouts on heed, gel and hammer bars alone, I can say that I have done 40 mile high altitude trail runs with just gels and 2 hammer bars and finished feeling strong with no GI issues. So in my personal experience yes it is ok to just use gels and hammer bars and no perp or SE.

Good luck

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